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Help identfying hallmark. CK LTD

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Home -> Reading Silver Hallmarks -> Help identfying hallmark. CK LTD

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SCROOGE




Joined: 28 Sep 2011
Posts: 16

Posted: 23/02/2016 
Post subject: Help identfying hallmark. CK LTD
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Hello everyone,

I'm looking at an item on ebay which has a CK LTD hallmark. The other marks are hard to read but the seller suggests its sterling silver, from London and dated 1975.
(see photo).

Ive googled around for a while and am having a hard time finding any information about this CK LTD maker.

Can anyone here help me to know more about this maker?

Do these marks appear to be of an item which is solid sterling ? ( not filled, not plated, etc).

Is there anything of concern or obviously wrong with these marks?

The seller appears to have a good reputation.

Thanks much.

Description:

ck ltd resized.jpg


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SCROOGE




Joined: 28 Sep 2011
Posts: 16

Posted: 23/02/2016 
Post subject: re: Help identfying hallmark. CK LTD
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So far no one seems to have any information on this hallmark. (Of course the question IS less than a day old....patience grass hopper, patience.)

Maybe as a follow up question...with all the information available out there on the internet, and all the people who follow this hobby...how often does an unidentified hallmark come along? Seems odd to me that there isnt some readily avaliable information about this maker.

Is it common for a silversmith to pop up, make a few items, then fade into obsecurity with little recorded history?
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silvermakersmarks
Moderator



Joined: 24 Jan 2008
Posts: 2143
Location: United Kingdom

Posted: 24/02/2016 
Post subject: re: Help identfying hallmark. CK LTD
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As there are no published references for London sponsors marks for most of the 20th century it is not at all uncommon to come across a mark which cannot be identified easily. Of course the Goldsmiths Company who run the London Assay Office have full records and are willing to identify marks - normally for a price.

CKLtd is currently one of those unidentified companies and to answer your final question, yes, it is fairly common for silversmiths to have a very limited working life as shown by the timespan in which we see their marks.

As far as the genuineness (is that a word?) of the hallmark is concerned I can say that what I can see looks OK, but the picture doesn't show all of the necessary details to be 100% sure. Note that the presence of a hallmark does not distinguish between solid and filled, but a plated object would not pass the assay and therefore would not be hallmarked.
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SCROOGE




Joined: 28 Sep 2011
Posts: 16

Posted: 03/03/2016 
Post subject: re: Help identfying hallmark. CK LTD
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Here is a better photo of the hallmarks. I'm not sure that this new photo will help to identify the maker though.

@Silvermakermarks, Thank you for your input. Much appreciated.

Description:

CKLTD SCROOGE resized.jpg


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silvermakersmarks
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Joined: 24 Jan 2008
Posts: 2143
Location: United Kingdom

Posted: 03/03/2016 
Post subject: re: Help identfying hallmark. CK LTD
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The details of the mark are now clear and it looks completely genuine. Thanks for posting the clearer picture. Any chance of a picture of the complete item?
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SCROOGE




Joined: 28 Sep 2011
Posts: 16

Posted: 09/03/2016 
Post subject: re: Help identfying hallmark. CK LTD
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Hello Silvermakersmarks;

Ive just completed the purchase of this Scrooge figurine. I collect 'Scrooge' related items and this is an item I'm thrilled to add to my collection. Ive been aware of it for over 1.5 years, but the ask price was beyond my means. Recently the seller and myself negotiated a reasonable sell price. During my years of collecting, this is the only example ive ever found of this item. Google is a powerful tool, but admittedly I'm often surprised at how difficult it can be to find information on items which one would think should be fairly easy to find. So, just because I have only seen this item one time, does not mean it is unique, but at the same time...if it was a high production common item I would think there would be 'some' information about it available somewhere. I'm inclined to believe there are not very many of these around. So anyways, I'm doing my part to document this figurine and its CK Ltd hallmark. Maybe some day, someone will do a search and find this thread and be able to share some additional details on this figurine and who made it.

Weight 1921 grams, 61.7 troy ounces.
Height 21.25 cms.
Hallmarked around the base for London 1975.
Maker C K Ltd.

Description:

CK LTD SCROOGE FRONT 1 resize.jpg


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silvermakersmarks
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Joined: 24 Jan 2008
Posts: 2143
Location: United Kingdom

Posted: 09/03/2016 
Post subject: re: Help identfying hallmark. CK LTD
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Thank you for sharing the picture. Not to my taste at all! Now let's hope we can get an ID for the maker.

I have used your image at http://www.silvermakersmarks.co.uk/Makers/London-CJ-CR.html#CK and will add the name if and when I find out what it is.
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SCROOGE




Joined: 28 Sep 2011
Posts: 16

Posted: 09/03/2016 
Post subject: re: Help identfying hallmark. CK LTD
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Youre welcome.

Yes, I think ol Scrooge may not appeal to a lot of peoples taste. Haha. Probably why it went un sold on ebay for 1.5+ years. Of course...the seller had it set at a pretty high price which served to turn people away.

Okay, thank you for adding the hallmark to your website. A few weeks ago I contacted the Goldsmiths Company with a request to the library to research the CK Ltd hallmark, along with a written description of the Scrooge statuette.

I have not received a reply to my request, and I'm not so sure I ever will. Time will tell I suppose.
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tomnik




Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 279
Location: Norwich

Posted: 15/03/2016 
Post subject: re: Help identfying hallmark. CK LTD
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Hi Guys,
My 'contact' at Goldsmiths has stated that there is no record for this maker's mark, although they suggested it was possible that the original maker's mark had been filled and re-stamped.
Make of that what you will.
Regards
John
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SCROOGE




Joined: 28 Sep 2011
Posts: 16

Posted: 15/03/2016 
Post subject: re: Help identfying hallmark. CK LTD
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Hello Tomnik, Thank you for the information.

So, there are hallmarks on the item, but no record of the hallmarks at Goldsmiths.

How can this be?

Are there other establishments who create or record hallmarks?

Is it common to fill in a hallmark and restamp it? Ive never heard of this, but admittedly im not an expert in the field.

Would you guys feel okay that this piece is on the up and up? If the hallmark is not at goldsmiths, or anywhere else, does it greatly diminish the authenticity of the item? Should i be conserned that this is not sterling, but some other material?

Im not overly worried about needing to have a 'famous' or 100 yr old hallmark. But it is important that this item is in fact sterling silver. The silver weight was a significant factor in deciding to purchase this. If this were some silvery metal other than sterling, then the hallmarks are fake and ive paid too much.

I have received this item in the mail. It is very heavy and looks great!. One thing i notice that i was not aware of at the time of purchase, is that this statuette is made up of individual components which are somehow adhered together. The head , arms, possibly lower torso, and base are seperate components. Where things are attached is very well done. Is it customary for itemslike this to be made up of differnet components? How do they affix the components together? Some sort of silver solder?

Is there some way to test to confirm that its solid sterling? If i refer to my days in chemistry class, i believe i 'could' determine the vollumn of this item by immersing it in a beaker of water and measuring how much water it displaces. Then i could calculate the specific gravity of silver and determine if the size of the item (by vollumn) corresponds to what it should weigh if it were sterling silver.

Any advise or opinion is appreciated.
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silvermakersmarks
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Joined: 24 Jan 2008
Posts: 2143
Location: United Kingdom

Posted: 15/03/2016 
Post subject: re: Help identfying hallmark. CK LTD
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Certainly there are ways of testing silver - it's what the assay office does every day. Calculating SG is one method but I would think it requires precision which may beyond any but a professional laboratory. However I am as sure as I can be from the evidence of your picture that the hallmark (i.e.the lion passant, uncrowned leopard's head and date letter) are perfectly genuine so the London Assay Office would have been entirely satisfied that Scrooge is solid sterling silver. Allowance is made in the assay process for the lower than sterling silver content of silver solder.

It used to be the case that the maker's mark (or more properly "sponsor's mark") was applied by the silversmith after items were returned from the assay office with their hallmarks. I don't know when this practice ceased, or exactly what regulations there are about registration of marks, but I guess it is possible that the CKLtd mark was applied after the statuette had been hallmarked and that therefore it may have been an unregistered mark. I have to say that I see no evidence of a previous mark having been filled in and a new mark applied - why would you do so?
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