Hi, I have a sommelier’s tasting cup there as left to me by my Nan and I’m trying to figure out the hallmark on it, any assistance would be appreciated. Thanks
2 Likes
French, 20th century.The plate maker’s mark in the rectangle I cannot read. Below or above it a shield encompassing a chasing hammer crossed with a tool used by goldsmiths to create a line pattern of consecutive marks usually a border in embossing work. This mark was used by Orfèvrerie MG Montibert , 49 rue Germain, Lyon. The company, founded in 1926, was acquired in 2018 by a competitor specializing in tableware for the hotel and restaurant industry.
The third mark, also in a rectangle, might be phoenix.
CRWW
2 Likes
I think that’s called a tastevin. The dimples indicate it’s for Burgundy.
1 Like
I found this article elaborated on the very interesting observation you made:
I concluded from your comments and the article and generally the following might be true:
Tastevins, traditional French wine-tasting cups, have dimples—and often raised, concave, or fluted surfaces—to aid sommeliers and winemakers in assessing wine within dimly lit cellars.
The primary reasons for the dimples and overall design include:
Light reflection. The dimples, combined with the polished, reflective metal surface, usually silver, catch and maximize whatever little light is available in a cellar, making it possible to accurately judge the colour and clarity of the wine.
Aeration.The small dimples help aerate the wine, accelerating the oxidation process to reveal its characteristics faster.
Visual analysis. The dimples and various reflective surfaces allow for quick, thorough, and precise visual inspection of both red and white wines.
Sediment check.The design assists in distinguishing if a wine is cloudy, which is crucial for determining if it is flawed or, in the case of old, unfiltered red wine, simply needs to be decanted.
Traditionally, these dimpled silver cups were a necessary tool for assessing wine quality before modern lighting and laboratories.
I found this article of help too:
And concluded from all that that winemakers rather than sommeliers had made first use of these testing cups and the dimples were specifically devised by Burgundian vintners not because that region needed the design but because its growers and winemakers had engaged somebody, possible Cornish tinsmiths to make them to work in candle-lit cellars.
As somebody interested in metals rather than wine, your research, and my own, made me wonder again at the global influence of the Cornish tin miners.
Anybody who has listened to the soaring chords of the hymn “Jerusalem” or recalled the lyrics fashioned by Blake is familiar with the story of Jesus’ uncle, Joseph of Arimathea who, as a wealthy merchant came to Cornwall to trade in tin.
Blake takes the story further:
And did those feet in ancient time Walk upon England’s mountains green: And was the holy Lamb of God, On England’s pleasant pastures seen."
Probably never happened although the trade in Cornish tin by the Jews of Anglevin is well documented.
Custom conforms to geography and available material. Although, and with the utmost respect to the Burgundian vintners, the family of Christianity’s most famous prophet is more usually associated with the vines of the Langedoc region to its south —where vineyards have endured for millennia unlike the wines further north which are now basically US derivatives.
CRWW
1 Like
Thanks Mr. Wilson, great article (though the second one seems to just be about a festival, but one apparently inspired by Rabelais so I’m all in). Very interesting about the Cornish tinsmiths. I do have a quibble with the statement that vines north of Languedoc are American derivatives. I assume you mean the American rootstocks that were grafted onto the vitus vinifera? But just the rootstocks are American. The grape yielding vines are from the surviving French ones. There were also, of course, many hybrids of French parents with American wild vines (which was the mainstay of our Canadian wine industry for many years Marechal Foch, Baco Noir et al) but Burgundy doesn’t grow any of them. I keep considering buying a sterling tastevin, but only for the history. I agree with the article. Unless you’re tasting in a very dark, candle lit cellar, good crystal is much better. Thanks again.
1 Like
Yes my reference was to grape phylloxera. Daktulosphaira vitifoliae, is a tiny, aphid-like insect native to North America that causes devastating root galls on vitis vinifera grapevines, often leading to plant death. I am told it nearly destroyed European vineyards in the 19th century and remains a major global viticulture threat. My data source is my son who has a Finger Lakes vineyard in New York state.
I am grateful for your reference to Canadian especially Niagara and Prince Edward County vineyards which are booming now we have cutout selling US wines in this country in part response to US tariffs against us for having the temerity to tell Trump he is an idiot.
I did spend a couple of weeks in Southern British Columbia last year looking at their Okanagan and Osoyoos desert wine country and product. Incredible product, which, unlike so much of the French, not adulterated with tanker wine brought in from Bulgaria or somewhere else.
Older tastevin’s are generally plain, sometimes with a snake handle or sometimes on a stalk and confused with toddy ladles. It’s really not until the 19th century that the decoration gets intense and very often silver coins featured.
There is a silversmith not a million miles from your doorstep who would be delighted to make you one to your own specifications.
CRWW
1 Like
What’s your son’s winery called? I was thinking of taking the long way on my trip to the maritimes this summer and was thinking of swinging through the finger lakes wineries. PM me if you prefer. Also I’d love the name of your silversmith. And yes the BC vineyards are beautiful, especially the Naramata bench. But they have their own blight, the wildfires which wrecked the ‘23 vintage due to smoke pollution on the grapes. The solution was to import juice from California but have it vinted in BC, so a lot of the wine being sold at the premier wineries in BC is actually US grapes, which makes for a pretty ineffective nose thumbing at Pres T.
I fully agree!
Christopher, is your son’s name Jason?