Help with hallmarks?

Can anyone tell me what these mean? I inherited this and have zero idea on it.

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The hallmarks are for London, 1807:

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The maker’s mark it difficult to make out. Perhaps Robert Garrard I?

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The engraving will be much tougher to pin down. It appears to be “period,” i.e., it wasn’t added years after the tray or platter was made. But it’s not a typical heraldic crest. Unless someone recognizes the location, we’re probably not going to be able offer any sensible guesses. :slight_smile:

ETA:

The piece would benefit from a good cleaning and polishing. Warm water and detergent, then some persistent polishing with a dedicated silver polish (i.e., not something designed for metal of all types - too aggressive). No need to get rough with it - better to polish it a few times to bring it back to life. The beauty of sterling is that it cleans up extremely well, even after years of neglect.

So, what’s it worth? Tough to say, but you can at least figure out the melt value, i.e., what the raw silver content is worth. Weigh it, then multiply by 0.925 (sterling isn’t pure silver - pure silver would be too soft to make things like this). Then multiply by the current spot price of silver - at the moment it’s about $1.90 per gram. A scrap metal dealer might pay 60% - 70% of that.

But I’m not suggesting you sell it for scrap. Shine it up and enjoy it, or sell it online. Depending upon the size and weight, it could fetch quite a bit. If you’re looking at comparable sales on eBay, look only at “sold” listings. Wishful thinking isn’t reality. And don’t be misled by low prices for “silver” trays - a lot of them are silverplate (electroplate), which are worth only a fraction of what a sterling silver tray would bring.

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I respectfully disagree with your recommendation to use a dedicated silver polish. Almost all of them are too harsh for a finely detailed piece like the one posted here. In fact, I can’t think of one commercial polish on the market at present that would be safe to use on this beautiful tray. I assume the poster is in England, and he/she might rush out and buy something popular like Goddard’s Proprietary English Silver Polish Foam. The warnings say to only use it outdoors or in a well-ventilated area (do not breathe vapors); avoid contact with eyes and skin. “Store locked up” is a significant warning. One has to dispose of all traces of it at a toxic-waste dump and according to my research on the ingredients, you can’t let it enter any water system.

There are less terrifying polishes out there in the world, but my experiences with them have proven that they not only remove tarnish, they take silver off along with it (rather like that aluminum-foil method).

Soap, rags, and muscle power are safe.

Sorry for the rant, but that tray is in glorious shape for something so old and it would break my heart to see the details destroyed by chemicals.

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:+1:

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Antique silver often has the hallmarks rubbed away, to the point that they’re indecipherable. And this is how they got that way - decades of servants roughly scrubbing the pieces with whatever old rag was handy.

Silver is soft, so abrasion is the enemy. If you’re using “muscle power,” you’re taking off silver. A gentle cleaning with soap and water is fine (followed immediately by drying), but bearing down with a random piece of fabric is not a good idea.

Better to use a low-abrasion silver polish:

I consider it a success if we can at least steer people away from using magic dips or highly aggressive metal polishes.

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Thank you very much for sharing these. Definitely same maker and time period

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Lol! Thank you for the welcome

Thank you so much for helping identify this!! We had no idea it was over 200 years old :exploding_head: We will definitely clean it up with how you suggested. I appreciate all your help!

Jeff is quite correct this is not a heraldic design so it is not made for a family sideboard.

It is a picture of walled or medieval city containing a number of buildings and rising among them are three steeples from three churches. The crosses on the top denote they’re Christian churches.

So who would commission an expensive tray with steeples on it?

A steeplechase is a competitive race featuring obstacles like hurdles and water pits, most commonly known in horse racing.

The name originally comes from an old style of cross-country horse race where riders used church steeples as landmarks to guide their way across the fields.

Today the steeple chase is more usually called a “point-to-point” if its a race for amateurs.

The most famous is the Grand National, run today on a fixed course at Aintree, UK.for professionals

https://www.etsy.com/au/listing/1207206376/vale-of-aylesbury-steeple-chase-by-fc

So this quite likely is a racing trophy. Unusually no attribution to the Hunt or Club awarding it. But I note wear so details may have been removed at some point in its history.

CRWW

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But don’t get too excited. At least one of those listings is by a retailer who’s hoping for lightning to strike. There are some sellers who do that - they’ll list something at twice what it should actually sell for, and then wait, sometimes for years, for someone to bite.

And quite often, large, showy, and/or unique pieces command a premium that doesn’t necessarily ripple down to other things by the same maker. Just because a Fabergé imperial easter egg sells for millions, that doesn’t mean that your Fabergé enameled cigarette case will bring a similar return. :wink:

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The lack of award information on the trophy is almost certainly because the tray originally came with an ebony stand which had a silver plaque on it to record the relevant data.

Jeff had challenged us to identify the town with three spires. It’s either Coventry in Warwickshire which, before the Germans destroyed the cathedral in its wilful Baedeker Raids was known as the City of Three Spires, or Litchfield where the Cathedral itself has three spires. However neither city retains its walls so that may be a fancy of the engraver to save him detail work on individual homes.

Coventry’s local hunt, The Warwickshire, which may well have sponsored the Steeple Chase, was very wealthy and could more easily afford to hand out silver trays as trophies.

Here’s bit of information about its founder:

https://worcester.emuseum.com/objects/20267/john-corbet-of-sundorne-castle-shrewsbury

CRWW

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I should have been more specific; sorry I misled you. When I referred to muscle power, I should have included a description: that would be muscle power combined with a soft fiber like cotton, linen, or hemp that is applying a wet paste made from soap shavings with just a few drops of water added. The soap, along with softening the tarnish, provides lubrication that eliminates rough friction entirely while the muscle power provides the pressure that convinces the tarnish to let go.

If you research the silver conservation techniques used by museums, you will see that they never, ever use the commercial polishes you recommended to the inexperienced owner of this lovely tray.

I am aware that antique silver often has the hallmarks rubbed away. Thank you for assuming that I am oblivious to that extremely obvious fact. They didn’t get that way from being rubbed with fabric; they got that way from destructive polishes.

There are low-abrasion silver polishes available but they almost always contain some form of acid which is as destructive as rough abrasion; in fact, they can be even worse.

I REPEAT: respectable museums do not use commercial silver polish. If one doesn’t care about the longevity of the silversmith’s work, then go ahead and use them.

I’m with Jeff on this one. Soap and a cotton cloth is a good first option, but it won’t remove the tarnish build up. See this Silver Polish Reviews & Ratings, Best Silver Polishes & Abrasion Ratings already linked by Jeff.

I think it’s unlikely that hallmark destruction is because of modern polishes, the best of which are very good, but rather Victorian/Edwardian butlers whose own polish recipes used things like baking soda, crushed egg shells, calcium carbonate etc. I know what constitutes “patina” differs depending on country and region, and if you are partial to a certain amount of tarnish on your silver then by all means have it as you like it. But I don’t think it’s fair to say that a good polish, such as Herman’s (see link) will strip off your hallmarks.

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You’re more than welcome.

Professional silver restorers and cleaners use a variety of substances and implements.

I found of great interest the account of the Duke of Devonshire’s full time silver custodian and how he does his job.

Trophy trays and loving cups, such as this one by Garrards, periodically come up for sale. At auction they often go for little more than scrap, lending some support to the theory Trophy Trays like Trophy Wives retain their highest value if they don’t switch guardians too often.

Lady Docker was often cited as the proof of that pudding*:

CRWW

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I’m going to resist the urge to make a lewd remark that the proof is in the tasting.

Interesting hack from the Chatsworth house silver. Submerged in sawdust to remove all moisture. now that’s thorough.

That would have been pretty mild compared to the contemporary media comments about her.

She sold a lot of Daimler cars but she sold even more newspapers.

She was the first person in modern history to be famous for being famous. Paris Hilton was but a pale image. Others in history who were famous for being famous?

I nominate Cleopatra and Helen of Troy on the distaff and among males, Beau Brummell.

Lady Docker spent cash to maintain her Trophy Wife status long after nature had abandoned the partnership. She ended her years, ironically, at the Hilton London Paddington station hotel originally the Great Western Royal Hotel where I used to meet my Grandfather for a restorative feast of eggs and bacon in post war England. He too kept a suite there and his chauffeur did drive a Daimler so maybe they met. The topic never came up.
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