Buying scrap question

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Good evening
Sorry if this question goes on a little.
I have been collecting silver for many years,
Really just as a bit of a challenge to see what I could pick up for a bargain at charity shops fairs and boot sales.
I have ended up with a pretty decent collection but I realise that in fact I actually have some really nice pieces of antique silver that to be honest I would rather was owned by someone who really appreciated it for what it is, rather than just silver metal.
All my collection is just left in a draw not being appreciated.
I have a few favourite pieces I will never part with but the rest of the really nice antique pieces I would prefer to sell to people who appreciate them .
So here’s my problem.
I would actually really like to keep the money I make selling the nice antique silver invested in silver , so I thought, sell the good stuff for reasonable price and then just buy any old silver junk or old coins for around the scrap price and keep that as an investment.
But that seems to be a lot more difficult than I thought.
I don’t really have any problems with selling the good stuff but I’m finding it impossible to find any way to buy scrap silver at anything like a reasonable price.

Even when looking at a pile of junk broken jewellery and odd bits of cutlery I can’t find anything at less than about £1 per gram , buying old silver coins is worse and as for new so called investment coins or ingots they are over £30 an oz .
So am I missing something here?
How is it possible to invest in physical silver if it’s only possible to buy it for almost double its spot price?

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I wish it wasn’t as simple as this but the answer is go to local auctions and buy domestic silver fashioned into items not currently used on the average dining room table.

Or even stuff that is.

The English used to air out toast in things called toast racks.

If that wasn’t cool enough they used to serve veggies in things called entree dishes, large heavy usually rectangular dishes with lids and detachable handles. They weigh a great deal and nobody wants them unless are regency or before.

Then there are suites of flatware made in the Americas in the 20th century. It’s troubling exactly how little they go for.

Heavy stuff, tea trays from mid Vicky onwards consistently sell below scrap especially if they are retirement pieces.

Tea sets, same problem.

And the higher the scrap spot goes the worse the problem gets.

The thing about most of the stuff I am talking about its often very well made, using cast moulds made a 150 years earlier.

Rule of thumb, the more recent and the heavier the gear is the cheaper. Also is items are bundled by the auctioneer they go from a third off the singles price regardless of which item it is.

If that still isn’t cheap enough for you, grab few tools and start investigating the tailings piles from old mines. Used to there was a real problem buying a house in a little town called Cobalt just north of Toronto. Because the mineral rights were reserved when you bought your house, coming home after work to find the house moved or dismantled and someone mining your potato patch was a routine hazard. If the streets weren’t literally paved with silver the sidewalks hewn out of slab stone were. Much of WWI was financed from Cobalt mines. And they might have got 4/5 of it, but rich veins re still readily available.

Cobalt’s a town everybody knows about. There are towns in BC which were once bigger than LA was which have completely disappeared into the bush. Others like Rossland have morphed into major tourist towns where if people come for silver its skiing trophies. Although, down the bottom of the hill is the Trail lead zinc smelter which used to pull out a ton or more of silver every year as a byproduct it shipped off to the Canadian mint.

Cobalt still does. Cobalt now being the product and silver the by product.

And silver isnt the only problem. There’s gold and copper. A while back got permission to moor a steam ship I had bought up Howe Sound at Britannia Beach. There was a good dock but no bollards. So I figured sink some pilings and voila, I’ve got something to tie the old girl up to which I figure out what’s next.

Went into the local hardware store to get a post drill and a pick axe.

" What’s you planning on doing with that?" a local wag asked me, having a pretty good idea of the answer.

I told him .

Which caused more mirth than would have been the ideal response.

Soon found out why. The nice dock was mine tailings and over the years had fused solid.

The guy in the hardware store having a chuckle at my ambition to sink pilings owned the mining rights to the dock, or so he said. Don’t know how profitable it was but he bought a brand new caddy every 18 months.

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Exhibit “A” just today:
https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/209723937_a-georgian-silver-harlequin-part-canteen-of-cutlery-essex-england Sold for ÂŁ1,400.00 plus 28% of same equals ÂŁ1,792 pounds against a scrap value of ÂŁ2,247.86 for a paper profit of ÂŁ455.00

CRWW

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Keep the stuff you like and sell the rest. If you bought it at car boot sales etc I’m sure you’ve done well. But why sell the good stuff? Keep it and enjoy it and sell the rest. And if buying silver is simply an ivestment buy a silver etf. There’s plenty out there. And you don’t pay much premium over spot. That’s the best way to play silver as investment. But if you love silver objects as i do, then that’s a different conversation.

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Not convinced huh? Well here’s another shot:

$C5,151.57 of silver at scrap plus 12 unweighed – free matching table knives.

And the estimate is between $C3,000 and $C5,000 which means the auctioneer has just gone through the same exercise I have and decided FMV is the high number but its likely sale amount is closer to the $C3,000 which even given the 25% buyers premium (another $C750) is still a paper profit of $C5,151.57 - $C3,750 = $C1,401.57. Add the shipping and possible local tax, unless you want me to pick it up for you – it’s at my local auction house-- and you are still looking at the better part of a grand clear profit plus 12 free knives which, if you were buying, remember they too are part-silver, would cost you $C250 each.

But that only clear paper profit based on melt or spot. The value of a harlequin set of fiddle, thread sometimes called military pattern because the messes favoured the style, is twice that. Go on ebay to see that.

Oh and the Birks Box they are in — another $C250.

CRWW

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I really enjoyed what you shared. I have been to Rossland, Trail and the surrounding area. Also had a very interesting tour of the Rossland mine (years ago) This trip is still a top memory, not to mention the natural hot springs there.
Kind regards, Susan -southwest Ontario.

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Kind of you to say so.

The West Kootenays are one of the last largely undiscovered corners of the world. Not sure where you found the Hot Springs. Possibly Ainsley with its underground caves may have drawn you. Rossland was named after the Ross family one of whom became our Prime MInister. John Turner’s mum was a Ross. Today the area is mostly about Red Mountain Ski Resort the home of onetime world Champ Nancy Greene.

Writing about Nancy coming home after winning gold in Europe in '68 was my introduction to the place. Nancy met us reporters at the base of the mountain and answered a lot of questions mostly about how odd it was Canadian females were beating out the males. This was '68 and we didn’t know better back then. After a while she got bored with us and said, " I’m heading up the hill for a run, anyone like to join me is welcome."

I accepted, having just driven across the country from Detroit to cover this and needing to stretch my legs. Now, in fairness to the rest of this dolorous story, I had only skiied once before down a very gentle mountain from one smart Swiss hotel to another just across the border in Italy and really hadn’t spent much time studying the local terroir. Which was the Rossland Range of the Monashee Mountains all part of the Columbian Range. They specialize in steep cutaway slopes, butt kicking moguls and patches of sheer ice only relieved by cliff faces you are best to avoid as a novice skier. Plus on that particular day there was a thick dense fog limited sight to … well about the ski pole length. And back then they were longer as were the black Head skiis that came with leather lace boots.

I must have started to look a bit apprehensive on the poma lift heading up to the summit.

“You Okay?” Nancy shouted.

" Yes. It all looks great"

An obvious lie as you could see precisely nothing from the lift

“Follow me you’ll be fine, this is my home hill,” said Nancy.

Be still my beating heart, the world’s fastest skiier fresh home from destroying all the European elite downhill world wants me to follow her down whatever the heck this is.

Well in my defence I did. Follow her. Although I think by the time I got to the bottom she had already boarded the plane from Castlegar airport back to Vancouver.

Years later I took my own children down the same hill. They all disappeared too. While now in my eighties I continue to inhabit western Canadian skii hills, there are days when I lust for the gentle Swiss Alp inclines from chalet to chalet with the bus carrying my luggage trailing.

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Are all messages public? I tried to reply via my email and it bounced back.
I would like to reply to this.

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If you hit “Reply,” your reply is public. If you want to send a private message, click the name of the user, then hit the “Message” link.

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Hi friend! I am Canadian and have been involved in the physical silver market for over 10 years.
I just looked at the spot price in pounds.
$26.84 today.
A 1 ounce silver Britannia is $33.62 each (10 minimum) or $32.82 each (100 minimum) goes lower as quantity goes higher.
This is pricing from the Royal mint… I imagine a good coin store might be able to be a bit lower.

You can probably buy cheaper coins if they are not government issues.
But whatever it is the public likes a recognizable factor.
In Canada the resale value on our silver Canadian 1oz maples is better than private mints.
(I sell and I buy back)

Tradability and recognizable…key factors.

In Canada we have a category called junk silver
That is pre 1967 silver coins with 80 % silver content. These usually sell around 5-8percent over spot.
I looked up England. Pre 1946 your coins were 50percent… I don’t know their availability there for you… but in Canada we have a lot of that junk silver for sale at coin stores and online.

Another option is going to a coin store and buying their scrap flatware from them…
in Canada you could probably buy for 2- 5 percent under spot for flatware.
I know the Canadian percentages and what the refiners pay.

I think owning physical silver is very important and it will position you strongly in the future to help those you care about. It’s an insurance policy against a declining dollar.- pound.
My guess is it may drop a bit in the summer, but by about Aug 20 it picks up.( That’s if there are no big news events.)
Susan

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I was amazed, arriving in Canada in the early sixties, to find myself being paid in Canadian paper dollars which I could take to the bank and face value exchange for quarters and dimes which were then high value silver.

Back then I lived in Windsor On. and the borders were wide open. So every month I used to load up all the Canadian change I could beg, borrow and earn and take them to the Franklin Mint which paid scrap for them. Back then a premium of about 30%.

Canada had rules about desecrating currency but no rules about taking it across the border and selling it to Americans.

The only limit on amount was the ability of my aging Japanese car’s floor system. Which eventually gave out half way through the Detroit Tunnel.

It says much for border security back then that somewhere under the Detroit river, one of the four busiest crossings between the US and Canada, I was left in complete freedom to scoop up bags of currency.

When I got to the US side, the border guy asked me if I had seen any usual tunnel activity. I told him I thought there might be a leak and departed.

The UK had, as you say, dropped it coin’s silver content about 1920. My only run in with UK high value silver currency was as a child accidentally swallowing a three-penny piece which used to be inserted in Christmas puddings.

I suppose during and after the war, with rationing of fruit and flour still in effect, there wasn’t much else to put in them except brandy to set them on fire and silver to reward you for eating the odd-looking concoction in the first place.

I tried to pass this yule tradition on to my North American children but, while the potential for arson seemed to appeal to the younger of them, an appetite for “figgy pudding” was difficult to export. Probably my explanation of suet didn’t help.

CRWW

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Coins in cakes are a delight for children. My Mom being a Lowden, of English descent put dimes and quarters in our birthday cakes. I am 55, and also did that for my kids. They weren’t silver then but there was still nickel and dime candy to be had.
It always surprised their friends. Not sure I would do it nowadays though.

My guess is that maybe one percent of the population in the 60’s understood the value of silver in the money. and the open robbery that was taking place, systematically worldwide. One hundred years before surely the people would have revolted?
I would attribute this ignorance to our selective public education systems…and the directed change in dynamics of business owner to employee ratio-(another public education result)
My husband got his Monetary economics degree from York U. in the 90’s. He worked on Bay Street as a Trader for nearly 10 year until the Toronto exchange closed… One day he lent a friend a Leadership book. That friend gave him a precious metal book by Mike Maloney.
He read it and was stunned! He had not learned any of this financial history previously, anywhere! He went on a reading rampage and started reading books by legitimate business men. This completely changed the path we were on. ALL OF US work our butts off for payment in dollars, that are being debased every minute. The dollar is supposed to be like a battery, that stores our energy, but this one is corroded on both sides and leaking terrribly. If there was one thing I would impart, it would be to watch Mike Maloney’s docu-series on youtube called the Hidden Secrets of Money… he is a true American Patriot, and it surprises me it is still on the web… I call him a Cool Hand Luke. He is a great educator.
Susan

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So there are still American patriots, because after Trump’s recent actions I have lost faith…

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The only true faith I have is in the big guy upstairs. I know he will correct all the injustices that are happening here.This sustains me. Susan

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Your definition of " reasonable price" is likely to contrast sharply with someone selling or buying silver.A lot of dealers will tell you its " only worth" this or that and will try to buy as scrap and sell as antique or rare.Gerrads or Chards in Hatton Garden will offer a good price on scrap silver. High street shops or pawnbrokers will " have your trousers down " given a chance,and are best avoided. Selling as directly as possible to a collector is best,however be careful about who you invite into your home to look at valuable silver…

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He, since you have assigned deity a sex, he was rather opposed to graven images. Exodus 20-23 is specifically opposed to silver gods.

There was the business of the 30 pieces of silver which the 13th disciple got for spying, which did nothing for the spot market, then largely controlled by Crassus, a sort of first century Koch Bros. who ran and funded both Caesar and Pompey as populist former generals out of the profits from Spanish silver mines he owned.

On the other hand, demonstrating you can find something in the bible to support almost any position you take, Proverbs 10:20 states, “The tongue of the righteous is choice silver; the heart of the wicked is of little worth.”

Similarly Psalm 66:10 compares the process of refining silver to God’s testing and purification of his people. “For you, O God, have tested us; you have tried us as silver is tried.”

Silver like, wives and walnut trees in the old fable used to be, and silver still is, better if they’re beaten. So this must have been a good thing back then.

The trouble with the notion of a god as the final court of appeal is given he is all powerful he must have created the problems he is now expected to solve.

Seeking to resolve this rather serious conflict of interest my grandfather’s church preached the traditional “god good, devil bad” and instituted a non stop war between them, an idea the democrats and the republicans have copied today.

As a child sitting listening to all this in pews in freezing post war churches, I recall wondering if hell mightn’t be all bad. At least it would be warmer. Churches then having no heating came up with “Death Watch Beatles” in the roof beams as an alternative attraction. They got the Beatles part right.

The modern church has rather taken Lucifer out of the equation and decided it is the inherent conflict between free will and nature that creates the dichotomy. Which, As Robert Altman could have told them, is really bad box office.

As Churchill once said when taxed with the question of making common cause with his former arch-enemy Stalin, “If Hitler invaded hell I would at least give the Devil a favourable mention in the House.”

You silver-tongued old devil you,

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With mirth I would suggest that “Guildhall” is the silver-tongued one. :slight_smile: I am thankful for the help I have already received from this community. I didn’t expect to be able to give knowledge back as you are all much sharper on your identifying abilities than me. Until this scrap topic came up.

I have more insights to add to this topic.Two items to consider:
The weight of your investment silver.
Second “who” is going to be the future buyer of your silver?
In the last 5 months gold and silver have hit record highs, and the public has been selling a lot. We call this street supply. So the supply is very high right now. So I have an old customer wanting to sell me 10 ounces of gold coins and a referred customer with a similar amount that I never sold to, he has gold bars he bought from a bank and wants to sell to me (I have very good buy back rates). If my funds are limited, of course I deal with the person I have a relationship with and they get the best price I can give. If the product you’re selling can stay on the market, it’s worth more. If it has to go to melt, it’s worth less.
So what I am saying is it is wise to have a selling/buying relationship in place before there is a run on the market.

Size of the silver scenario.
You have a 1 oz coin of silver and a 100 oz bar of silver.
You need to liquidate it for some currency. Silver has soared to $250 an ounce, (which is extremely conservative in my opinion) Clearly $250 will be easier to liquidate and at a better rate than the 100 oz bar at $25 000. Oh and you may not want the amount of $25, 000 either.
I personally own silver household items for enjoyment. but bullion for trade and investment. eg. The farmer I buy from will actually take a silver coin for my purchases… I wouldn’t be able to give him a silver spoon… but he really likes the coins.
Susan

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Holding precious metal - silver, gold, etc. - as an “investment” is always a bit dodgy. Unlike more typical investments, it doesn’t pay interest or dividends. The spot price is highly volatile, particularly that of silver. Liquidity can be a problem - you can’t call your broker and say, “Sell!” It may take a while to find a buyer, especially in economically uncertain times. And the silver market might be subject to market manipulation that’s beyond your control.

While it might be a good hedge against inflation, you’d better pray we don’t sink into deflationary times. During the Great Depression, industrial demand for silver plummeted, and the price sank to almost nothing. I believe it bottomed out at $0.28 per ounce. That’s not $28 per ounce - that’s 28 cents per ounce. The U.S. government was moved to step in and artificially prop up the price. In that respect, it reminds me of what De Beers did during that period, buying up huge numbers of diamonds in an effort to support the price - they were reportedly storing them in old milk cans.

I wouldn’t really consider scrap silver, or even bullion, as an investment, per se. Once you’re fully invested in stocks and bonds, you might consider some precious metal as a hedge, or as a matter of pure speculation.

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Oh, and buy some real estate before thinking about bullion. Love the quote from John Adams, regarding advice he received from his father: “I had heard my father say that he never knew a Piece of Land run away or break, and I was too much enamoured with Books, to spend many thoughts upon Speculation on Money.”

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