Faint double-struck crest

This little argyle is currently on offer on eBay:

Described as London 1836, Robert Hennell (I believe the third), and that looks right:

The mystery is the crest, which appears to have been applied once, faintly, then re-applied, slightly to the right, something I’ve never seen before:

Anyone have a theory about why that would have happened?

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This may just be an artefact of the photography. I found the previous auction listing for the same piece (earlier in May), and that doesn’t show the faint doubling:

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"Speer, Alfred Ernest. Esquire, of Sandown Lodge, Esher, Surrey, late Captain 3rd Battalion Worcester Regiment, an arm embowed, vambraced, the hand bare, and grasping a spear point downwards, all ppr., and charged on the arm with a thistle, slipped or. Dum spiro spero. 303. 10 " Fairbairn Heraldry.

Also cited:

His initial army appointment:

“3rd and 4dh Battalions, the Worcestershire Regiment, Alfred Ernest Speer, Gent., to be SecondLieutenant. Dated 29th January, 1887.”

And a gravesite in Great Malvern Cemetery

https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1447559

Which puts that to rest.

So what that tells its readers is the silver item was purchased second hand by Cpt. Speer.

Whether that explains the ghost in the silver or not I leave to those with better eyes than myself.

I suppose it is tactless to point out the Speer name acquired quite extraordinary opprobrium when attached to another later Albert, Hitler’s architect leading up to and during WWII a man who employed more slave labor than anybody else and got away with it by being charming and writing a book about himself.

CRWW

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I’ve seen references to this crest tied to Capt. Saville Speer, 1768–1831, so it might be period.

ETA: It occurs to me that this piece addresses your complaint about sterling coffee pots and toast racks, to wit, that they seem to be designed to cause the premature cooling of a hot comestible. An argyle is specifically designed to keep something warm! Perhaps you should bid on it. :wink:

ETA: Re: the crest, it seems to be a common motif that goes back much further. From a magnificent piece of Irish provincial silver from Cork, around 1680 (Charles II):

I should have snagged that one. I could have sold my cars to pay for it:

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Capt. Saville Speer’s crest as it appears on the family vault is an armoured dexter arm holding a downward pointed spear with no markings on the armour.

Albert’s much later variation of the crest is charged with thistle slipped (no leaves) which Fairbairn cites as being granted specifically to him. You can see the thistles on the crest illustrated. The crest on the older mug is devoid of any embellishment.

Now the thing about initials and crests is, unlike hallmarks, they might have been added at anytime after the crest was approved by the College of Heralds.

We don’t know when the Heralds approved the later crest but we do know it was specifically for Albert and we know his dates which indicate a time well after the hallmarks show the silver was assayed. So I am going to rather stick with second hand silver theory which certainly fits with his “land rich cash poor” profile.

You will have noted the mottos are completely different.

The earlier crest on the lidded mug was granted by the office of the Chief Herald of Ireland. the later crest was granted by the College of Heralds in London.

Sandown Park Lodge grounds, the family home, became the first ever enclosed racetrack when the entire estate was sold by the family for property development. The racetrack was an early haunt of my mis spent youth.

CRWW

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At least the engraving isn’t jarringly “out of period.” Every now and then one stumbles across a nice piece of Georgian silver inscribed, “To Woo Woo, the best DJ in Santon Bridge!” I’m making up the part about the silver, but I was, alas, present at the noisy celebration for the departure of said Woo Woo at the Bridge Inn in 2004. But I have seen pieces with some highly regrettable later presentation verbiage.

So, are you planning to be a bidder for the argyle, so that you’ll be able to keep your gravy warm without resorting to the microwave?

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I am no fan of gravy, tepid or otherwise and even less of anything made for a Campbell. The man for whom this device was invented spent his life fighting for the Germans who took over the throne from the Stuarts and still have it. My lot spent most of the 17th and 18th century trying to avoid being slaughtered by them. Which, I suspect, is why they tottered down to London and started brewing beer.

You have a clear field on the argyle!

The original device would have been used by the Duke on the campaign trail, part of a soldier’s equipment while on the march. Cpt. Speer may well have acquired this modern iteration for the same purpose.

Odd things on Silver: I have a beer mug with the names of every single romantically-involved with-the-owner female plastered all over it. I bought it years ago because it was so awful I thought to put it out of its misery in the smelter. But its awfulness is its attraction and I still have it somewhere.

CRWW

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I’m hoping to be granted a crest for my family, featuring a Scullery Maid Rampant.

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I suspect there’s something like that lurking in every family’s “treasures.” So bad, it’s irresistible. :slight_smile:

There you go; a new subheading for the forum,

“Silver that is so bad it’s good”.

Your preoccupation with rampant scullery maids is best satiated by a re-watch of Altman’s Gosford Park, Although I think she was passant and the cotton mill owner was, well you know, busy.

CRWW

I just wish to honor my ancestors appropriately. On the Scottish side, domestics and pastry cooks. (On the German side, merchant seamen.)

Scots and Germans. Tricky mix. You might end up in the White House.

CRWW

There’s nowhere to go but up. I’d put some stick about.