Hello,
Could someone help me with these markings.
London
1793
James Stamp???
Also, not sure if anyone recognizes the coat or arms.
Thanks
1 Like
George III Antique Silver Candlesticks | waxantiques
Georgian Silver Wine Ewer by John Scofield | waxantiques
“Vis Unita Fortior” – “United Strength is Stronger”.
Historical antique 18th century engraving heraldy coat of arms, crest, Irish Earl of Mount Cashel ( Cashell) , Motto / slogan: Vis Unita Fortior by Woodman & Mutlow fc russel co circa 1780s Source: original engravings from the annual almanach book Stock Photo - Alamy
2 Likes
Nice work Bart. Amazed that two different guys, working at the same time in the same place, would have a practically identical mark. Must be a story there.
2 Likes
Given the date is indeed 1793 then this is by John Scofield or Schofield, a George III London silversmith who entered his first mark as plate worker in 1776 with Robert Jones and his second alone 1778. This will be his third mark entered in 1787. Arthur Grimwade notes he was “…well known for his impeccable craftsmanship and elegant restrained taste. His candlesticks and candelabra are highly prized.” His descendants emigrated to Baltimore where they ran silver production through until the late 20th century.
James Stamp the goldsmith with the somewhat similar mark, died April 11, 1780, some 13 years before this item was manufactured. James probably holds the record for the largest number of assay stamps entered in the Guild in the shortest period of time. But none of them are this one.
He too has an interesting new world connection. A prominent descendant of his was Edward Stamp. Capt. Stamp establishing the first mail route between Vancouver Island, BC and San Francisco, CA. I met his granddaughter Penny at an Ottawa garden party for the then g-g in 1968 . Penny had married Doug. Stewart MP for Okanagan- Kootenay in the 1960’s and as such had an invite to the annual summer bash. I had just gate-crashed. Easy to do in those days on Sussex Drive. We all became rather good friends and Doug and I business partners.
I have absolutely no information about Crest holder, Stephen Moore. whose name was added to the ever-expanding Irish gentry except that I had a horse from Cashel, which, with huge originality I called “Cashel”
He won everything I entered him into and our partnership consisted of me telling his where the next fence was and him deciding entirely how to get over or through it as expeditiously as possible. Like a lot of others from Ireland I quickly discovered the less you interfered with his decision-making the best he liked it.
CRWW
2 Likes
Thank you all very much. Very clear.
2 Likes
Thank you mr wilson. Interesting info. I figure i should pick up the grimwade book, but a used one is $89 usd. I could get myself a nice little cream jug for that.
Ps it’s a good thing you didn’t name your horse Mt cashel or he would have been jumping other things.
1 Like
Thank you for your kind words, Paul. I will no longer be responding or helping with puzzles because a certain gentleman has accused me of being competitive and constantly reports my comments as inappropriate. I’m not commenting on this because such behavior has no place in a world of emotionally mature and cultured people. I will remain an observer, although I will likely be criticized for this as well…
Bart
I really appreciate you helping with these puzzles. It would be a real shame if you stopped. I have never seen any comment justified as “inappropriate”. We all need to learn and start somewhere. I hope you will reconsider but it’s your free time and you are sharing your knowledge for free so 100% up to you.
To the administrator I have never seen in my dealings with Bart and inappropriate comments. If people don’t like Bart’s take things then don’t read them!
Mike
2 Likes
It’s not me who should be ashamed… Thank you for your noble words. I suggest contacting me via email as my posts will be reported for deletion.
Any competition never crossed my mind – since I’ve been here, I’ve been offering my humble assistance to the delight of those interested. But there’s always that one dissatisfied person… I try to tackle difficult topics; the obvious and clear ones are a challenge for ten-year-olds in elementary school. Legible signatures, obvious dates…
I suggest saving my answers because they will soon disappear…
Glad it wasn’t me. If one or more other people have been “constantly” flagging your posts, I have no idea who they are.
Don’t go Bart. You’re invaluable. There are many opinions here, and many strongly expressed. It doesn’t mean you’re not loved and repected. I certainly appreciate your diligence and dogged determination.
2 Likes
So now you have all this information are you going to go to the Wilkens Auction in Toronto next week and buy it?
At 825 grams (26.51 troy oz)its scrap value is C$1,289.81.
Ross Morrow, their expert, will be in on the weekend and will help you.
Cheers
CRWW
Can you tell me what the price of silver will be in 10 years? I typically buy Gold not silver but I’m interested in some Russian silver maybe English. Who is Ross Morrow? He works at LiveAuctioneers? I don’t know LiveAuctioneers never used their service.
But if Ross Morrow works at Wilkens for sure would like to chat with him :). Truth though, I’ve never bid in a Wilkens auction. Just learning still!
Surely being identified as being competitive is a compliment not an aspersion? Certainly it is in the US which seems to be from where the comment emanates.
However you raise a point: rapid searches using often very unreliable software and even worse AI can lead to some very strange answers. I made that mistake about a month ago and got corrected very politely by Phil. Now I wait until the quick draw guys have finished and then if I have anything to add consider commenting.
You, I recall are Polish. I have no idea how it is in your country but I can tell you when your countrymen get over here they seem to become not only very competitive but rather successful. It’s quite annoying actually.
It will, of course, have occurred to you, if your are correct and you and this third party are in competition, by leaving the field, if there was ever a competition, he or she has now won?
Stick around. I am going sailing for a month on the west coast up to Desolation Sound and then on to Haida Gwaii (Queen Charlottes) Maybe catch some salmon and watch some Turner-esque sunsets through the haze of burning Vancouver Island forests.
The quacks tell me I am getting too old to sail a Benateau 34 alone. I have rigged it so I can and this time of year Hecate Strait should be calm so all will go well.
CRWW
2 Likes
I cannot even tell you what price silver will be tomorrow. What I can tell you is the Chinese are buying up everything. Gold and silver and copper. Gold is now Canada’s greatest export. Greater than coal or even oil.
When you are not looking at the Wilkens Auction take an un-look at a nice, probably Abdy II, sugar bowl. It’s dated 1824 and William is supposed to have stopped working the year before. Since there is no one else with the right initials working there, then it may be him. Anyway the uncertainty means the bowl is going to go for less than it should. They tried to sell it last month and failed.
CRWW
Agreed on the Chinese. They are buying everything with fiat! Central banks record gold buyers. That’s kinda scary actually.
When you are “not looking” funny stuff. Thanks for heads up I will take a look.
I still don’t get your thoughts. Ross Morrow, William. Sorry, not following here.
Don’t worry about it, Mike and thanks for all your useful thoughts and support.
CRWW
Yes, I’m Polish and proud of it. You mentioned my compatriots in your country… So where? You claim that our presence is becoming a positive competitive advantage for your compatriots? Don’t you think that reflects poorly on you? In Poland, the greatest threat comes from foreign agents, i.e., representatives of the “chosen nation” and the pathological, mafia-like entity known as the European Union.
Not sure this is the forum to discuss European politics which seems to be getting pushed into a defensive posture by the US abandonment of it – much to Canada’s chagrin.
But since you asked, no. Canada has always welcomed talent from outside its borders and I hope we never adopt policies that prevent that talent from coming here and working with Canadians and hopefully becoming Canadian.
I can understand Poland, a country with few or no natural borders and a history of constant conquest and subjugation, feeling somewhat differently about external liaisons, and I take your point. But to date the experience has been no fifth columnists.
We will work hard to keep the US and the EU on the same page — our PM won a Nobel Peace prize from those efforts over the Suez split in 1955/6 – we will continue to encourage anybody who wants to work with us in those or any other efforts to make their home in this vast country.
Today Canada exports more silver and gold to China than any other product anywhere.
“Don’t you worry you are selling all your gold/” I was asked.
“ No, I replied, if we mined ten times as much and sent it every year we would still be doing that a hundred years from now.
I have a home in Cobalt, Ontario sitting on a silver seam 18 meters thick and120 meters in depth. I have a clause in my deed of land saying anybody who wants to mine can do so and knock my house down to do it. So why does that not worry me? Well first I own part of that mineral claim and secondly it is not currently sensible to start mining as so much silver is being produced so cheaply as a byproduct of lead, zinc and cobalt mining.
CRWW